OMG!!!! LOL!!!!

Sorry to tell you Adam, but Craig was the real star of this video!!! Loved him!!!

Nasty p.s.: Maybe next time you should work on the lightning…

Like “podcast” a lot.Don’t drink while podcasting and better lighting,too dark on your faces.Podcast could be shorter.Unethical treatment of cat-Quelle horreur! Diana ok but Craig very sympathic and quite interesting.Try,try again.

Great idea! I love it. I think the length is perfect. It’s refreshing to see people going into an intelligent, detailed discussion on the web. We’re too often sent little bite-sized packages of contentless information – probably a product of our culture’s advertising methods.

In any case, a comment on what you guys said about America’s consumption of meat: I agree! It’s about time we stepped back and thought about why we eat so much meat (and if it’s ethical!). I read somewhere once that it has to do with the meat industry promoting itself (with help of the government, which created the food groups pyramid and put meat in its prominent position) in the fifties after the war. I wonder if anyone else has more info on that…

I look forward to next week’s podcast!

You were right about the slow start, but it did get interesting. (I’m sure Craig will have plenty of pointers! ;)

Craig’s story was insightful. Was it Meg who posted links to the BBC’s show on killing the animals we eat? Yeah, here we go: Kill It. I haven’t watched it yet, but I really like the concept from a “know where your food comes from” standpoint. Like having my kids watch the Quebec version of “No Reservations” with me, where they kill the seal and basically butcher it on the kitchen floor, eating the fresh meat all the while. I got to explain to my kids that food that fresh doesn’t necessarily need to be cooked, and that the way they were eating it was a tribute to the seal. My oldest also just learned about native americans in school and how the plains indians used *all* of the buffalo, pretty much every part.

I think it’s important to do away with that disconnect that Craig talked about, whenever we can. Catching & cleaning fish doesn’t seem to bother people, but they get squeamish about pigs & cows.

Thanks for starting the dialogue, Adam!

I think you guys should try doing a blind taste test to see if “ethical” meat tastes better. Its an iteresting idea.

As fare as organic fruits and veggies, I think they absolutely taste better, but most people can’t efford to eat “ethically” and organically; Its simply too expensive. It would also be interesting to calculate the difference in cost to eat free range and organic for a month compared to non organic and not free range. I bet its a big difference.

When I re-watched the video this morning, I suddenly thought of a food that tastes better when treated unethically: veal. As far as I know, veal (or baby cow) is confined so it gets fattier and doesn’t exercise of all the fat. When it comes to veal, eating ethically doesn’t translate to eating well (at least when it comes down to fat content).

Re: Unethical Eats, I suppose some goose/duck liver would fall into that category, too, eh? Although not all fatty livers are from force-feeding.

everytime i hear that ethically treated meat tastes better, the logical and scientific part of me wants to ask, “how about a blind taste test?”

the food experience is after all, very very subject. the color, plating, smell, and even those you eat with all have an influence on your experience.

you want a blind taste test?

get a good chef (A). get a bad chef (B).

get humane, free range, best chicken ever. (1)

get anti-biotic free, but not free range chicken. (2)

get some national brand like purdue. (3)

get store brand like keyfoods. (4)

your actual test:

A1

A2

A3

A4

B1

B2

B3

B4

you’ll have to test the sample size because when you taste too many samples in one sitting, it alters your perception. the best example of this is when they taste tested a bunch of colas at once, all the sweetest tasting colas tested well because that flavor was strong relative to the pool of samples.

anyway, food blog readers don’t need blind taste tests because they all already believe if they think it’s better for the animal, then it automatically tastes better.

also the type of food matters. cooking method matters. a long braise might be diff than say a porterhouse.

ok, maybe I’m a technodope, but I can’t seem to figure out how to watch any more than the first nine seconds of this… help? anyone?

Great video post! Regarding veal as an example, eithics are never black and white, are they! Certain issues require us to determine if the End Justifies The Means, ie: veal, fois gras, test tube babies, cloning, GMO’s etc…and successful answers to these questions are what cultivates our humanity.

Whatever is gained at another’s expense, whether animal, vegetable or mineral is generally out of integrity and will likely come back to bite you in the butt in some way. This is the cause and effect that generates integrity in the first place. Unless it is a gift of nature, and then it is not an expense, it’s a gift. And a gift is given freely. These animals are not gifting us with their lives, we are taking their lives for ourselves in the same way slaves were once considered ours for the taking, simply because they were available. This is greed and selfishness, which may seem shocking only because it has become such the norm for Americans to profit at the expense of others. We are only now beginning to wake up to the ethical expense of our excesses as a country. As Diana thoughtfully pointed out: meat every day has never been sustainable or ethical. And it’s not even healthy. Cancer feeds on excess protein, but of course we’ve all been brainwashed by the Meat Council – whose job it is to SELL MEAT, hello – that we require it for survival. It’s not even good for the land.

And Craig’s story about the traumatized pig is a clear example of what our pork chops cost us in karma. How does one enjoy pork knowing that an animal had to go through that kind of suffering for your pleasure? None of us here are in survival mode, as a peanut butter and jelly sandwich will give you just as much protein as a pork chop. It’s all about pleasure at the harrowing expense of another.

I live in a rural area where people have small herds of cow on a few acres. When they slaughter a cow, the entire herd is traumatized for the entire night – lowing and mooing in near shreiks, very disturbing, all night long. It blows my mind how desensitized someone must be to think this is ok. It’s about as clear a communication of not ok-ness as you could get. But it doesn’t stop them. Because their hearts have turned to stone, I guess, and their personal pleasure is more important to them, literally, than life itself.

Yikes, maybe I should write a book, already, sheesh! Anyway, thank you so much for going into this on your site and the video is a fantastic idea. I love it!

PS ! One more thing about whether ethical food tastes better: as one’s palate becomes more refined you actually do begin to taste these subtle differences and you can most definitly tell when something’s been grown or made with love and respect. If you are accustomed to heavy chemicals and spicing in your foods than it will take a certain commitment to purifying your palate before these differences become apparant, but they are most definitely there. Ask anyone who has been eating only organic farm fresh foods for a year or so. You just can’t go back to the standard factory flavors with any sense of pleasure, because you’ve healed your palate and now it tells you the truth.

Yay Podcast! I liked how spontaneous it was and would definitely love seeing more if you have the time.

I think in your discussion of ethical eating you may have put a bit too much emphasis on taste. I think a lot of people who choose to buy ethical/local/organic foods don’t do it because they’re looking for food that tastes better, but because of the bigger picture in terms of the environment/sustainability and possibly their health. I mean, I agree with elarael that eventually the differences may become apparent (I wouldn’t know, I’m still in unethical and terrible mode) but I don’t think taste is necessarily the top priority.

Great discussion…almost over the top. Ethical treatment of domesticated animals for human consumption….reminds me of not-too-distant US history of ethical treatment of humans for slave labor.

Raise that domesticated animal as you see fit, but kill it without inducing fear and those pesky fear-induced hormones.

Was watching a British TV programme calle “It’s Not Easy Being Green”. They show free-range pigs. One day a man with a tractor-mounted crane shows up, and he has a rifle. The pigs are segregated, thrown some feed, and then each one separately shot in the back of the head while it was feeding. Brilliant. Those pigs had a happy life and a quick humane death.

Lolita looked traumatised. I think she understood the drift of the conversation, and had some fears.

Interesting viewing, guys. More please!

I think in a perfect world, we’d all be vegetarians, and no animal would have to suffer to provide us with food. I think the simple fact is though, whether ethical, free-range or other-wise, there will always be a demand for meat.

While actually focusing on what is on the plate in front of me does occaisionally make me feel guilty, the simple fact is it tasted great!

Steve

the discussion was enlightening, and AG and Diana did a great job. And Craig was an absolute hoot!

i try to go vegetarian at least 3 times a year, but it just never works out.

I’ve been hoping you’d get into video for awhile, now. Welcome to the whacky world of online video!

Great topic (just watch the lighting!)

When you do that apple taste test, I would love to participate. I go to great lengths to buy apples from Union Square and I am convinced that there is a huge difference. Of course you would have to use apples from the vendor I frequent, otherwise I am not sure if I would definitely tell the difference. But one thing I know, I doubt you will find Stayman Winesaps at Key Food or Whole Food for that matter.

all the points you guys made are so valid. this past year my husband’s parents bought an organic free-range turkey (which cost about £80, mind you, as it was massive) but my GOD this turkey was amazing!! i try to buy free-range and organic meat whenever i can but here in the UK, especially in the south, it’s easier to come by. it’s definitely more expensive but that just means we eat a little less meat and i have no problem with that! we are too used to the idea that we have to have meat every day and with every meal, it’s just not sustainable, it shifts everything out of balance.

LOVE the podcast, more please! and if you’re ever in london/brighton do look me up! :)

Love how long the videocast was… and really interesting. It doesn’t hurt that I think Diana is really cute as well… Great site! –4DX

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